How Peter Jennings Bet On Himself And Won A Million

On a recent episode of the Unabated Podcast, host Thomas Viola sat down with Unabated co-founder Peter Jennings to talk about how he bet on himself, was an early leader in the daily fantasy sports space, and how he’s balanced family life.

The full video is available below, or you can subscribe and listen to the Unabated Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts.

The following transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

Thomas Viola: Hello everyone, and welcome on in to a very special episode of the Unabated Podcast. I’m Thomas Viola, here for a little bit of something different than what we’ve been doing here at Unabated on the pod so far.

This is a special one-on-one interview telling some interesting stories with interesting people from throughout the world of gambling. And when I thought of interesting stories, there is no one that I thought of before you my friend, Peter Jennings, here with us today to talk about your life and how you’ve gotten to where you’ve gotten and all the fantastic success that you’ve had both in the world of sports betting, DFS and so much more. Because quite frankly, your story is just a fantastic one and I’m so excited to get into it with you here. Peter, thank you so much for joining me here today.

Peter Jennings: Tom, thanks so much for the kind words. I hope I can live up to half of what you just said, but, excited to chat about it and hopefully people are interested in this stuff, can potentially pick up some stuff on taking risks. I’ll be excited to chat about everything that’s happened.

TV: Absolutely. I mean, you want to talk about taking risks, you have taken some of the biggest that you can and I’m so excited to get into of all of it. The big one, though, way back when, in 2012, you’re just getting your start out in DFS. You go down to the DraftKings Championship in the Bahamas. You’ve already had a couple of wins under your belt, but this was a particularly big one. You take home DraftKings’ first ever million-dollar prize down there. What was it like becoming an overnight millionaire like that?

PJ: Yeah, it was crazy. I actually just quit my job in Cambridge working for a competitor of DraftKings and started really playing DFS full time. And things had just been going super well and it was just such a huge moment to win the million bucks. Obviously, financially, that was a huge bankroll booster.

But more importantly, during that time, that was kind of right as DFS was really starting to take off. So I knew it was a big moment in time just for the industry and what I was trying to do in terms of building the brand and ultimately hoping to build a business.

It was super lucky just to be able to win that at that moment in time. They used pictures from that on ESPN and all these other places, so I felt super fortunate. It was definitely a lucky moment, which was followed by a big risk that I took to start 2014.

It’s super fulfilling and a ton of fun, and the Bahamas was insane, and DraftKings was spending like crazy. It was a great moment in time, for sure.

TV: Now, you can’t quite see it in frame here on the show, but I can see it on my screen here. Is that the belt behind you on one of those shelves right now that you won that day?

PJ: Yeah, that is the belt. I’ve held onto it. I actually have the check on the wall here, too, that I’ll hopefully be able to keep forever. That was definitely just an incredible moment in time, a very fortunate moment in time, and something I’ll never forget.

Betting on Himself

TV: Now, I want to go back to the beginning with you, but before I do, you mentioned that big risk in 2014. What was that risk? What was it that you were doing then?

PJ: Yeah, there’s a couple of risks where I just bet on myself, and I think that’s something that I would just kind of want to continue to convey is the best bets that you can make are on yourself, especially when you’re in a moment in time where you don’t have family to support.

It was just a big bet on myself kind going away from a guaranteed salary, stepping away from StarStreet at the time to pursue playing DFS full time. (The year) 2014 just went super well, and the pinnacle of the year was winning the million bucks.

It was just crazy just going from this corporate gig, working in the DFS industry, to getting a good role with DraftKings as a brand ambassador, really betting that I can make a full-time living playing fantasy sports. To make seven figures that year was just incredible.

TV: And that’s right, because you talk about you were in corporate, you were doing stock trading, and then what was that moment for you where you said, was there a flashpoint where you said, “I’m ready to take this leap and do this full time,” or was it more of a gradual thing? What was that like, standing on that edge and making that decision?

PJ: I quit my job as a stockbroker back in 2012, and then I was really fortunate to win the FanDuel championship for $150 grand. In terms of just like the financial repercussions, that was bigger because I didn’t have a big bankroll. That enabled me to go out and pursue the industry full-time, which I guess I was already doing given that I quit my job. But really made it a lot more comfortable to move across the country.

And then 2013 was a lot of fun. I learned a lot about the industry. I was really focused on building StarStreet and helping from the business side, and I was still excited about that. But I just saw so much opportunity as a player and taking that leap from having a salary and everything else to just really focusing on playing. And that being my main source of income was just a big bet on myself. It was a really interesting opportunity. I thought the markets were really inefficient in DFS. Certainly more inefficient then than they are now. And fortunately, things really worked out.

Blue Ocean in DFS

TV: Right after you quit your job, you take home $150 grand as the winner of the FanDuel Fantasy Football Championship that was here in Vegas in 2012. And in addition to winning some of those big tournaments like that, like the DraftKings championship, what was the day to day like attacking DFS back then in that time?

PJ: So 2012 was a little different. It was hard. I started to make a little bit more money than I was making as a stockbroker throughout that year. Before that $150 grand, I probably made like $80,000-90,000 playing fantasy. And that was playing as high as stakes as basically anyone on FanDuel.

Then in 2013, a bunch of these other sites popped up like DraftKings, like StarStreet, Draft Day. You were able to get some decent volume. I think that the big winners were making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Maybe someone made a million bucks in 2013, but it was really hard to sustain a full-time income just playing DFS, but the games were super soft.

But then 2014, things really took off from a volume perspective. The investment in the industry by DraftKings had gotten really big. They were really pushing FanDuel’s spending. So instead of getting thousands, maybe $10,000 a night, you’re able to get tens of thousands of dollars of action every single day. Even a little bit more during football season, maybe $100 grand-plus. That really made it a lot more lucrative if you could sustain a pretty good ROI because the volume was so much better.

It was a great moment in time. And yeah, the games were really inefficient. I heard a quote recently, and this is super applicable to my journey, “It’s much more important to find the right wave versus being a great surfer.”

I don’t think I’m the smartest guy in the room by any stretch. Certainly not the best DFS player now. But it was the right wave and I was at the right time. It didn’t require being a great surfer to get that great wave. That was just right place, right time, right background with poker and finance, and I rode that 2014-15 wave where DFS was super inefficient. You could make a good bit of money playing if you were focusing on it.

TV: I remember that time. That was when every other commercial during NFL Sundays was either DraftKings or FanDuel. They were just flooding the market back then.

PJ: In September 2015, DraftKings and FanDuel spent more money than, like, Coca Cola and Geico on TV commercials. And that win in 2014, they were still using my likeness for some of those commercials. It was awesome. I was playing pretty much every single sport. My day revolved around playing DFS. It was a really cool moment in time, just given the opportunity. And obviously it’s fun to win.

Early Exploits

TV: What was it that you were doing to win? What were some of these inefficiencies that existed in the market back then that have obviously since then dried up? What were the angles that you were attacking in the early days?

PJ: People would play guys who are out. I don’t think many people were using projections. I had a basic Excel spreadsheet and was tracking the news really closely. I worked with a couple of other sharp people who are looking for similar information, who are kind of grinding out projections and other things. It was just a less sophisticated time for the collective player pool, and I was taking it seriously and trying to do everything I could.

I was starting to look at umpires for baseball and really considering the weather. A big part of my foundation for every sport was taking into account kind of what sharp books were saying. I’d really monitor totals and the Vegas lines and the market lines that were out there and available to me to help me make decisions on players.

I don’t think people were using projections. There weren’t a lot of third-party tools to help people. It was just a really inefficient market. And again, it was the right wave to ride. My poker experience also helped a lot.

A lot of people had success during that time when the games were soft and then would gamble way too big and go broke. There weren’t that many pros that would sustain being able to play, because there was the combination of discipline and skill didn’t intersect for too many players.

Concentrating at the Top

TV: And that has certainly been one of the things that’s changed, because you see a lot more of these big whale fantasy DFS players coming in now and kind of soaking up a little bit of the market, kind of doing some of the same things that you were able to find success in. Obviously the landscape has changed a little bit, but some of these edges, like for example, people now are all using projections, they’ve dried up. But does that mean that the market has just become too efficient or are there still ways to beat the system?

PJ: Yes, it’s interesting. I mean, I think it was a lot easier to win back then in terms of just like a guaranteed ROI. But the biggest winners in the history of DFS are all happening right now.

I’ve heard rumors that some of the top players have made in the $5 to $10 million range per year. There are less people making, say, $200K to $500K to a million bucks. Especially in 2015, that was probably the peak of people being able to make that low six figures to low seven figures.

There’s a lot of pros that are able to kind of survive and win because the games are so inefficient now. There’s like 10-15 players that are just kind of really crushing. So there’s still a lot of volume available. And I think if you’re at the very top end of the spectrum and can beat the highest stakes games and do really well in tournaments, there’s still a lot of opportunity. But the player pool as a whole is a lot more sophisticated. There’s a ton of really good third-party sites. And to win at the highest level, I think that the players now are so much more sophisticated than the players that were kind of at the top of the game in 2014, 2015.

The Future of DFS in a Post-PASPA World

TV: Do you think that that’s a problem for the DFS industry right now, the fact that we’re seeing a little more of that concentration up at the top? Or is it still possible for some of these other guys, people just starting out, people that aren’t quite in the same level of stakes to still win?

PJ: It’s easier for people just starting out to have a chance to be competitive and potentially win now because there’s so much good information out there. There are so many good sites out there that offer really good information. It is easier to get caught up to speed.

But it’s a lot harder to get to the top of the food chain than it was back then, where maybe there’s 100 people, 200 people at the top of the food chain. Now there’s maybe 15 to 20. In general, in these peer-to-peer markets, the top 1 percent makes all the money. That hasn’t changed. It’s just concentrated even a little bit more at this point in time.

There’s a lot of variance. A lot of the money right now is in tournaments, so there’s a ton of variance there. Long-term winners might lose one year, long-term losers might win one year. But it’s still a really fun ecosystem and I’m hopeful that we’ll see peer-to-peer games just grow in general in the betting and fantasy markets.

Make Millionaires, Grow the Game

TV: Yeah, and we can talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes, especially as we’ve seen some betting exchanges start to come up and how sports betting is now getting a little bit more into that peer-to-peer environment as well.

But first I want to talk about the DFS companies because obviously a lot has changed in the last 10 years of daily fantasy. I mean, DraftKings and FanDuel, they’re both titans of the sports betting space now, in addition to their DFS offerings, that got them started. But DFS started as that alternative to sports betting that was allowed at a time when PASPA was still the law of the land. With states legalizing betting now, DFS does tend to see a decline in the states that legalize. What do you think the future of daily fantasy looks like as betting continues to grow?

PJ: Yeah, it’s supposed to have been flat across kind of the country as a whole where DFS is offered. I agree that when states go legal, more people will sports bet.

There are some really big things going for DFS that hopefully will be applied to other forms of betting and fantasy. Probably the most important thing for DFS and where we saw a lot of growth, especially back in that 2015 timeframe, is these lottery type payouts where you can invest a little bit of money to win a ton.

The millionaire makers were huge for the growth of DFS and they’re still super popular today. I think in general, just people love them. I mean, Game One coming up here with the Finals. There’s a millionaire maker for golf. We’re seeing multiple millionaire makers for each major.

There’s a millionaire maker every Sunday for football. So the lottery payouts with low buy ins have been super powerful and are really popular, and I think those will sustain. People love that type of game and hopefully we’ll see more of that kind of come to fruition in other peer-to-peer markets.

It’s no secret that people love parlays. My hope is that we’ll continue to see these lottery type payouts with peer-to-peer ecosystems where there are people competing against each other versus the house. But, the future of DFS, I don’t see a ton of growth, necessarily, with the salary tag teams. But there are other formats that I hope can take off.

We’ve seen best ball just absolutely explode with the likes of Underdog. Now DraftKings is offering huge contests. There are a whole bunch of companies offering really big best-ball contests, and those are really popular. I think we’ll see more skill games evolve and become popular, especially when they gain traction, where they can operate these huge payouts. That’s what I’m excited for. I love survivors, love pickups, and I’m hoping there’s innovation with these operators with new types of games going forward.

Transitioning to Sports Betting

TV: Now, how about for you personally when it comes to DFS versus sports betting? Was there a point where you kind of shifted and started betting more after it became legal? When did you start getting more into the betting space as well?

PJ: I was betting back in like 2014, 2015, but didn’t have the legal sportsbooks like we do now here in Colorado. It was more of a hobby than something I was taking seriously.

I really started to take betting more seriously when Colorado legalized back in 2020 and we were at a really kind of unique moment in time, especially here in Colorado where we have very favorable regulation for sports betting. It’s something that I lobbied for personally and just really happy with how things turned out.

A lot of the money goes toward the water projects here in Colorado, which is a really important issue here in the Southwest. Obviously, you’re in Nevada. Water is going to be a huge part of what’s going on with different economies and everything. Happy to see a lot of the tax revenue instead of going, when it was in the black market, to bookies and other people. Now that revenue is going to regulated books and part of that tax is going to the water project. I’m really excited about that. We saw some other things with marijuana and I hope that continues to be the case across the country.

People are going to bet regardless, wherever they are, and I want to see it regulated. Sorry for this long-winded tangent, but we ended up with really good regulation here in Colorado that brought a lot of books here and there was a ton of opportunity, especially in 2021 where the books were spending a ton.

There are a ton of promotions and as you know, it’s really important to shop for price and look for edges. There are some books that just had really off market lines and I was able to make a ton of money in 2021 betting without that sophisticated of a process. Really, just kind of a line-shopping operation.

I was fortunate to know some sharp people as well and had a couple of things. I think we’re winning against even sharper lines, but in general, the majority of the money was made just picking off really inefficient lines and taking advantage of promotions.

So betting has been a much bigger part of my income relative to DFS for the last three years, and I expect that to be kind of the status quo, at least for the next couple of years, given that Colorado is such a good place to bet.

Creating the Right Ecosystem

TV: You talk about those regulations, the regulatory bodies, and the fact that we’re seeing a lot of that money come back into benefiting everybody, not just people who sports bet, but the other reality there is that for every state like Colorado, there are some states that aren’t doing things quite as well. I mean, you’ve got the lottery running some states. What do you think is the most important thing that states that are legalizing now and in the future, that they can take and learn from the Colorado markets?

PJ: I have a strong view that people are going to bet regardless. There’s a lot of stats out there, but for sure tens of billions of dollars were bet every year in black markets in the U.S. before regulation and PASPA reversed.

You can learn a lot from these states generating a lot of revenue, these operators. Well, I have a lot of qualms with how they do business in certain ways. It’s definitely good for the economy. They’re providing a lot of jobs. Obviously, the employees are benefiting from the success. I know a ton of people who are early at DraftKings that have been very fortunate to do really well with DraftKings stock. So happy to see that.

In general, I think the tax revenue you’d rather have that go toward the collective good than being in a black market where it’s going to bookies or whatever else that aren’t paying their fair share in taxes. None of that money is going toward projects like the water projects here in Colorado. I’m hopeful more and more states will look to this opportunity and say, hey, this is a way for us to bring in more revenue for the state and let’s allocate it to smart places.

We’ve seen that work really well in the marijuana industry and it’s working well so far with the betting industry and I don’t see any reason why more states won’t come on board with that. I guess the one issue that you pointed out, which will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next five to 10 years, is there are certain states that have big influence with the lotteries or tribes or other conflicts where they’re going actively against sportsbook operators. I’m hopeful that we’ll just kind of see legal sports betting across the country in most states in the next couple of years.

First Steps Into Business

TV: So let’s get back off our tangent here and get back on the road of you and where you were going with your life. Obviously, you start sports betting a little bit more as you’re taking off in the world of DFS. You’re getting further and further along and you get to this point now where we’re into the late 2010s getting up to today and you’ve been involved in so many different projects in and out of the sports betting world. You spent six years with DraftKings before you were a founder of both the Action Network and Fantasy Labs. Before, of course, also being a founding member here at Unabated. Did you ever envision Action Network becoming the colossal enterprise that it is today?

PJ: I certainly was hopeful about it going back to Fantasy Labs because I do think that’s interesting. A lot of people ask about how we started Fantasy Labs when I had my biggest edge playing. Certainly my edges were eroded, offering fantasy edge, which I was really proud of. I think we really did help a lot of people, but it certainly made the markets more efficient. But I always had aspirations to do things on the business side.

One of the hard things about betting is that it can be a little lonely. A lot of times you’re like, “What am I doing to help the world? Or what am I doing to help other people?” And while starting a content tool and information site isn’t curing cancer, it did feel good to help other people have success.

I also took kind of a macro view on the industry thinking that building this software and helping people with information and saving people time would kind of grow the overall pie. So that was the goal. Plus, I thought there was a lot of upside in business and really we were just at the right place at the right time with Fantasy Labs and it took off right away.

We were cash flow positive right away and it was really a fun journey. And then we’re in a position where our sister company, Sports Insights, with Dan and a lot of people here that are involved in Unabated, they basically presented an offer they couldn’t refuse with The Chernin Group to basically spin up these companies for the Action Network. So we went that route.

We really liked The Chernin Group guys. There were some growing pains with Action Network and we made a big bet on that being a big thing. For a couple of the years it looked like we weren’t going to be as successful as we ultimately ended up being. But it was really fulfilling to see that be so successful.

Then honestly, the luckiest moment in my life, or one of the luckiest moments in my life, was when Action Network sold in May of 2021, which is like basically the stone top of kind of the overall betting ecosystem from an operator standpoint, from a picks and shovels standpoint, just in the valuations of these businesses. We were kind of tip-top the market with that sale. So that was a really fortunate moment and really happy the way things played out.

Investing in Picks and Shovels

TV: And so when it comes to investing in some of these projects, what is it that you’re looking for? Is it that your experience and your background both in stock trading and investments and sports betting and DFS, do you kind of feel like those are all skills that have helped you piece together the ability to spot good opportunities and think of good ideas that make for these great investments?

PJ: I definitely learned on the fly. I’ve always been really interested in business. I was an entrepreneur since I was a little kid, selling lemonade, selling Jolly Ranchers on the school bus. I got really into Pokemon cards, flipping sports cards. I’ve always really enjoyed business. And, yeah, that was kind of my aspiration with DFS, I was really interested in the operator side. Quickly learned that there was a lot of headaches on the operator side. Obviously, there’s a ton of upside.

Things would have been a lot different, but maybe I could have joined DraftKings really early on as, like, an employee, and that would have been an interesting ride to see how that played out. But I feel very fortunate with the way things played out for me personally betting on myself to play, and then the picks and shovels game. That’s a long-winded way to say that the operator side was the most interesting to me initially.

Then I really learned that the picks and shovel side of the business, selling tools, content, information, there’s quite a bit of upside. And also, it’s really easy to build cash flow positive businesses.

That’s been what I focused on since 2015, is just investing in building businesses that could be cash flow positive so that you have optionality going forward, you’re not just doing the venture game. That worked really well with Fantasy Labs. Building these cash flow positive businesses makes a lot of sense.

Finding Game Theory in DFS and Sports Betting

TV: Yeah, it is, certainly. I mean, you want to talk about the picks and shovels game. From my experience, just being here and being a part of Unabated, it has been a fantastic time. And I felt myself over the course of the last we’re coming up on eight months here or so, just being around guys like you, Rufus, Jack, you feel yourself getting sharper.

It’s fantastic to see how this community has come together, how great of a community that we’ve been able to foster and how everybody is willing to help each other grow and become sharper bettors, like we’ve seen.

That brings me into talking about kind of your unique perspective on sports betting versus DFS, because that player versus player element that we talked about before, does it change your approach versus betting against the book? Like, how much is game theory coming into play when it comes to your lineups versus making just simple bets? And how much time do you spend on DFS versus sports betting in a day today?

PJ: Going back to 2014, 15, even the years before game theory wasn’t that relevant. It mattered a little bit. Basically there’s a huge edge in just playing the best plays. Like, what’s the optimal lineup, who are the best players each day. Make those teams and don’t even think about what the rest of the field is doing because the rest of the field was so bad that just jamming in the really top end teams was a huge ROI and a way to just kind of print money.

As the game evolved, everyone kind of figured out kind of who those best players were. There’s obviously a lot of great sites. We did things at Fantasy Labs. There’s a ton of other picks and shovels businesses that popped up within DFS. So a lot of people kind of knew what these good teams were.

I actually struggled initially. I would just play kind of what I thought were some of the best teams, and then you’d be in a tournament and other people would have the exact same lineup or a very similar lineup to you. And especially in tournaments where the main prizes were top-heavy, where it’s a $3 million tournament, a million to first, you really have to emphasize being unique.

That’s where the game theory started to become a big part of the game, and it’s evolved to where game theory is as important, if not more important, than projecting the players.

I spent quite a bit of time during football and college football working on that. There’s a lot of value in correlations and understanding kind of the game theory and ownership projections of all these players. But it’s not something that I’m doing full time like I did back in ’14, ’15, ’16, where I’d play every sport. I’d work 70, 80 hours a week. I had no kids. My wife and I at the time were just dating, so I had a ton of freedom to really focus and grind.

There’s just so much opportunity now. I’m spending 40, 50 hours a week, maybe during the peak seasons with football and college football, which are my two favorite sports, but nothing too crazy. Maybe that’s even a little bit high, 30 to 40 hours, I’d say, and spending a lot more time betting throughout the year. Honestly, business is even more exciting to me. And that’s where, especially during the offseason, a lot of my time is spent.

Balancing Act

TV: In addition to the betting, the work you do with Unabated, Lucky Trader, all the projects that you’re working on, you and your wife, you recently welcomed your second child. Congratulations, by the way. What is it like balancing a family with the demands of a life in sports betting? Has being a father, do you feel changed you as a sports better?

PJ: Yeah, it’s certainly harder, and I’m lucky to have a great infrastructure and a lot of support at home with the kids. But, yeah, my main job, especially in the afternoon, just to be with my daughter and with the kids.

I certainly couldn’t do what I used to do where I was grinding basically every waking hour thinking about how to maximize winning and DFS. It makes it a lot trickier to balance everything. In addition, I have some great betting partners that I work with. So really trying to delegate and try to figure out ways to maximize edges with other people in the betting world is super helpful and where I get the most fulfillment from a career perspective and just working-wise is on these businesses.

Spending more time on those things versus really grinding DFS. The majority of my income still comes from betting but have a really good infrastructure, good team around to kind of make sure the day-to-day gets taken care of.

TV: So let’s get into some final thoughts here. First off, where to from here? What do you see as the future? Do you see yourself stepping back from gambling as your family grows? Where do you see Unabated growing to?

PJ: It is hard to balance betting, DFS and family. Ideally, obviously I love the sweat, ideally I’d still be involved, but I hope to continue to delegate and leverage capital to kind of make money in those markets but not have to be involved day-to-day, which I think I’ve done a decent job of.

I certainly still need to continue to work on that. Of course I expect the markets to continue to get more efficient and it’s going to be harder and harder to win. I don’t play DFS baseball anymore, for example, which is where I won the million bucks. Not since 2017. There are things that I have just cut out over the years and I can see myself cutting out more and more as time goes on.

From a career perspective, I think really focusing on Unabated, really excited about the work we’re doing at ETR. So trying to figure out ways to partner and make these companies work together, really focus on helping Unabated grow, those are my biggest focuses for 2023 and beyond. I really am excited about the business side of things and that’s where you can get the best compounding if you can find great people that work well together, like yourself. That’s what’s most exciting and fulfilling for me is growing the business side of things.

Don’t Sweat the Losses

TV: My final question for you here, Peter, if you could give yourself one piece of advice, go back in time to 2012 when you’re just starting out, what would it be?

PJ: It’s a great question. I think I took really good risks. I wish I could go back in time like the 2015, 2016, 2017 range. Definitely after all that success, I think I did a pretty good job handling the wins in terms of the ego, but I didn’t handle losses as well at certain times where I just would kind of get too down and I didn’t enjoy the moment all the time when things were going poorly.

I wish I could go back in time and just not take the losses to heart so much. There are some positives that you work a little bit harder, but I wish I could do that a little bit better and I wish I would have been more willing to evolve quicker in those years because there’s still a lot of opportunity.

I had a really good year in 2017, but I certainly made some mistakes in like 2016-2018 playing kind of a similar style that I’d played back in 2013, 2014, 2015. That just wasn’t as profitable. And if I’d been more apt at evolving, I certainly could have made more money and I certainly could have had more fun overall if I didn’t take the losses so hard during that time.

Life is short. You’ve got to enjoy the moment. I was still living the dream, playing DFS full time with these businesses and whatnot, and I definitely got too down at times, which I wish I would not have done.

TV: My mom loves to say life is about peaks and valleys, and you need to experience the valleys to truly appreciate the peaks. Peter, thank you so much for being with me here today. It was fantastic being able to hear more about what has been an awesome life story for you. I’m so excited to see how things with Unabated for us go in the future and how great things go for you as well in all of your other ventures.

For now, if people want to follow you and see what you’re doing on a day to day, they can follow you at @CSURAM88 on Twitter. And of course, they can head on over and check out the awesome picks and shovels that we’re providing over at Unabated.com. Sign yourself up for a trial today.

You guys know the deal, but for now, that is going to do it for us. Once again, thank you so much for the time today, Peter. We will be back with your regularly scheduled programming later on this week, but for now, that will do it for us. Best of luck to everyone and we will see you next episode.